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Post by Lilly Dragontongue-Skywalker on Aug 25, 2005 14:51:34 GMT -5
it would just be more INTERESTING, but of course you never wanna try anything new, and you never let me add anything new to my site cuz you need to add it to the policy first. Ana. You know how you sometimes like debate tips? Well here is one: you need to respect the other person's opinions, no matter what your opinion on the subject is. On HWH, debating is used as a way to resolve arguments and bring about new/modify current/reject certian policies. They are not ment as personal attacks on other people's opinions. Sometimes people have a certain pattern to their opinions because of something in particular that they believe in. For example, I might believe in keeping things simple on the site. I may regect certain policies/new boards that would cause clutter and chaos, because I believe in keeping things easy and manigible. See? That wouldn't mean that I don't want to try new things. It's just my beliefs. Anyway, moving onto the issues. As the webmistress you DO have the power to teach classes. You DO NOT have the power to inflict new policies that do not have to do with the mangment, technology, or non-interactive areas of the site (according to article 3.) without first winning the privliage through a debating process. And, Arianhrod is NOT a minority, we are tied (me/Arianhrod) v. (you/auqasplash), unless you are saying that you yourself are also a minority. Therefore, creating a "challenge class", which presumibly would be violating educational decree 1, would be against HWH policy (and who just had an inauguration?). That's how the law works here. Keep debating. Personally, I like the idea of modifying educational decree #1, so that extra credit can be either part of the lesson, OR like another lesson, that's more challenging.
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Post by Ana on Aug 25, 2005 19:59:45 GMT -5
ok. i said that these classes would NOT apply to educational decree #1.also, when i started HWH, i had classes and everything that i created, but all of a sudden i can't add something new to HWH, i have to debate it? as you can see, you're not going to convince me, i'm not going to convince you, and we're gonna be stuck at 2 vs. 2 for a while. but i personally think that as this is my site, i have the right to add a new class, as a trial class, and THEN we can write a policy for it. you do have a good point with the extra credit. HOwever, i would like this to be more like athe actual hogwarts, and these new classes would be great, especially because book 6 was just released. when i created clubs you didn't complain. i know classes are different, but i am not making classes required, just more interesting.
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Post by Lilly Dragontongue-Skywalker on Aug 26, 2005 16:27:43 GMT -5
ANA. The thing about educational decree number one is that we DO NOT have any exceptions for challenge classes set up. That is why we are debating it. And we are at a tie in which you will not give up, and in which your arguments are not convincing me. Why don't we just keep going, get more people on, that sort of thing instead of suddenly changing the rules that WE AGREED TO. Clubs are different because they were completly new, this is trying to modify/expand upon something that is already set in place. And with modifications comes trouble. Why don't we compromise, and try and figure out a way that we can keep a balence between easy lessons and difficult lessons. Why don't we stop lashing it out on each other and try and think up good ideas together?
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Post by Arianhrod on Aug 26, 2005 17:22:06 GMT -5
Ana, ldragontongue is completely right. Let's start working towards a compromise. List all the things that you want "challenge lessons" to offer.
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Post by Ana on Aug 26, 2005 17:43:26 GMT -5
as you say, ldragontongue, "with modifications comes trouble". so you dont' wanna add anything to hwh at all, you don't want to modify anything at all? the only reason i agreed to that because i could see i was overrulled, although i was not completely happy, but it was just one decree. then it came decree after decree, you kept limiting everything. so yes, let's get more people to debate. i will message people and tell them to go over here. as for what challenge lessons offer: -HWH will be more like hogwarts and harry potter. -ti creates something challenging for those who want it all the time. you can't just give extra credit all the time, even if it's not related to the lesson. and if it is, you have to do the lesson first. it's just not interesting. -it gives people a chance to find out more for themselves, without just having the information given to them. -it is something new that i think members would like and support.
and clubs may have been completely new, but this is something else i'd call new. but that's just a matter of opinion. so, let's work towards a compromise. if you don't wanna have the classes, can't we just have a trial like for the hufflepuff board?
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Post by Arianhrod on Aug 27, 2005 9:44:58 GMT -5
Ana, you cannot just create a trial like you just did. We need to talk about it first.
Ana, that's not what I asked for. I want you to tell me specifically what challenge lessons can offer that extra credit cannot.
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Post by Ana on Aug 27, 2005 14:07:15 GMT -5
ok, there you go: -HWH will be more like hogwarts and harry potter. -ti creates something challenging for those who want it all the time. you can't just give extra credit all the time, even if it's not related to the lesson. and if it is, you have to do the lesson first. it's just not interesting.
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Post by Lilly Dragontongue-Skywalker on Aug 27, 2005 15:51:18 GMT -5
(Ana, I say this as camly as I posibly can). With modificaitons comes trouble. I wrote that because I believe that, and not just on this website, I believe this is just a fact of life. Changes occuer, it's just part of life, but there never easy. That doesn't mean I never want there to be modifications! Quite the opposite, there are many things I would like to be different. It's just that sometimes you need to see if you cause will be worth the trouble, or if that's all it will be, trouble. And sometimes it is worth it. But my point was not that I don't like change, but that it's more important to debate modifying things than new things because change will can cause chaos, that's just how it works. Anyways, putting that aside, we're still fighting here. We really need to sit down and talk rationaly with each other. Ana, I know what you want. I know what I want. But I am going to PUT THAT ASIDE. I am asking you to do the same.
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Post by Arianhrod on Aug 27, 2005 20:36:58 GMT -5
Ana, you're still not answering my question. We've agreed to talk about changing educational decree #1 so that you don't have to do the lesson first.
"-ti creates something challenging for those who want it all the time. you can't just give extra credit all the time, even if it's not related to the lesson. and if it is, you have to do the lesson first. it's just not interesting."
You can do extra credit just as easily as making another lesson plan.
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Post by none on Aug 28, 2005 11:18:09 GMT -5
Hmm...well I"ve read all you've had to say....
I just think that it would be a good idea, and it would add a little fun to learning everything. 'Cause let me attmit, I don't find the regular classes much fun. I think a nice challenge is fun, so then this would be a good idea. Extra Credit, would give you extra points, when you've gotten something wrong on the original work. I think these "O.W.Ls" and "N.E.W.Ts" should get there own "grades" or "points" or whatever you like to call them.
"-ti creates something challenging for those who want it all the time. you can't just give extra credit all the time, even if it's not related to the lesson. and if it is, you have to do the lesson first. it's just not interesting." I think what Ana means is that, extra credit can only be given if you have a lesson up, whereas the challenging classes can be made at any time. Am I right? Correct me if I am wrong. And yes, you can just create another lesson for the extra credit to be the challenge, but what if someone needed or wanted to do the extra credit but didn't want such a challenge?
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Post by Ana on Aug 28, 2005 18:18:09 GMT -5
thank you aquasplash! you see, i think that if members want it, it's worth the trouble.
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Post by Lilly Dragontongue-Skywalker on Aug 29, 2005 9:15:47 GMT -5
Ana, I understand that auqasplash wants it, we knew that from the start. But this debate is still locked in a 2-2 tie! That's why I am proposing that we STOP debating, as neither side is going to conince the other in this debate (as you have already stated), and we START working together to create a solution.
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Post by Ana on Aug 29, 2005 18:06:12 GMT -5
ok, i cna't think of anything right now, besides it would be kind of hard to cpmpromise between what we have.how about for each class the members vote if they also want a n.e.w.t lcass about the same subject?
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Post by Arianhrod on Aug 30, 2005 8:18:11 GMT -5
Ana, maybe NOW would be a good time to have a formal trial in order to tell if people will even have an interest in this. We could say something like in order for it to be considered a success, you have to have 5 members in 2 weeks not including Aqua*_*Splash. You can alert people to this trial, but you cannot lobby or plead them to join. This class can get no more publicity then any other new class.
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Post by Lilly Dragontongue-Skywalker on Aug 30, 2005 9:10:12 GMT -5
I think that's a good idea. Why don't you pick one of your classes, Ana and make a N.E.W.T class for it. If things go according to Arianhrods plan you can keep the class and make more. And I agree, don't publicize this too much. Just put an announcment on the website that their is a 2 week trial class, just as you would for a regular class. And it might work and it might not. Keep this in mind. Please, do not make any promises to people about what will happen after 2 weeks, like you did on the Hufflepuff board (with the quidditch team). If this trial works we will have NEWT classes. If it does not, we won't. EITHER WAY THE DEBATE WILL END AFTER THE TRIAL IS OVER AND WILL NOT BE REOPENED UNLESS THERE IS A CHANGE IN THE SITUATION. (aka, people start wanting/not participating in NEWT classes) However, if it passes, we might keep the debate open a little longer to discuss posible additions to the policy. Also, I think that besides the 5 people that have to join there should be at least 2-3 homework assignments turned in. The main reason that Ana and Aqua*_*Splash want these classes are to provide more interesting/challenging homework. Let's test to see if the homework works by having 2-3 people complete it. If you just have 5 members that join, are they really interested in the class, or do they just join every class avalible? So, in 2 weeks time you have to have 5 members, and should it be 2 or 3 homework assignments? (Not all 5 people should be required to do homework, as it is optional.)
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